1975-0800 Mass and Meeting with Archbishop of Krakow, Wawel Cathedral, Wavel 3, Krakow, Poland
Śhrī Mātājī: You know this Pope of yours, I went to Krakow. I went uh with My husband to Krakow.
Lady: Oh just the how [unclear].
Śhrī Mātājī: Who -- just before, before he became the Pope [Cardinal Karol Józef Wojtyła, Archbishop of Krakow, became Pope John Paul II on 1978-1016]. And the, you see, he's [Sir C.P.'s] a big man, so they took Me ... uh they said, "What are You interested in?" I said, "I'm interested in churches," so they took Me to Krakow.
And they had a mass. You see, this fellow came and shook My hands and I raised his Kuṇḍalinī, all right. And It pierced [snapping the right fingers:] through also. But [snapping again:] It again went back, because he's a Christian like that. And the I worked [unclear], worked on him quite a lot.
But you know what happened? Recently there was a photograph of Pope [John Paul II]. And [raising the right arm:] his hand came out like this, and [holding the raised arm with Her left hand:] the hand is missing. His hand is missing.
Lady: I know! I know! I know.
Śhrī Mātājī: And that ...
Lady: I know what You are saying, I know about this.
Śhrī Mātājī: And that [laughing:] photograph was published. They don't know how it was published.
Let them see these points.
And Rome, in Rome people are very much against him. Very much against all institutions, it's nonsense that they do.
Lady: It's horrible!
Gentleman: Sorry?
Śhrī Mātājī: When I went to Krakow [in 1975 summer], you see, I went ... I went to their place because My husband is a VIP. You see, so they ... they made a Mass for this thing. And this fellow [Cardinal Karol Józef Wojtyła, Archbishop of Krakow] was the cardinal, was the cardinal of this Krakow.
Gentleman: Mh-hm.
Śhrī Mātājī: I didn't know all that but, you see, I raised his Kuṇḍalinī, should be the answer [unclear] hand. Very, very impressed by the Indian people, this one.
And I raised his Kuṇḍalinī. He felt that, also, but it fell down like that.
And the I wrote a letter to Grégoire [on 1975-0900 or 1976-0906] because Grégoire's birthday is on the eighth of September. And I, I wrote to him a letter and I said, "I'd met uh just someone like this, a cardinal, and I raised his Kuṇḍalinī." Because Grégoire was uh sort of moved, sort of worried about all the Catholics going to Hell, you see. [As laughter starts:] I said, "One of them are there. But you don't worry but I don't think It will stay there. It's all fallen down and all that."
And the letter will be there.
So when he [cardinal] was elected [as Pope on 1978-1016 under the name John Paul II], he [Grégoire] said, "I'd forgotten all that." He said, "Mother, the one whom You [laughing:] gave Realization."
Lady or Sahaja Yoginī: [unclear].
Gentleman: That could have helped him.
Śhrī Mātājī: Uh?
Gentleman: That could have helped him.
Śhrī Mātājī: [As he laughs:] I don't know.
But sometimes, you know, he, Grégoire says that.
One day he was talking on the radio ... uh on the television, and Grégoire said, "Now, please say something about the Holy Ghost. Say something about the Mother Earth." Then he started talking about the Mother Earth. And Grégoire raised his Kuṇḍalinī and they were [he laughs]. I mean, there were two, three Sahaja Yogis sitting.
So, it may work out.
But, you see, he's so much bound. You see, we ... he is not Spirit-oriented. He's more power-oriented, ...
Gentleman: He is man.
Śhrī Mātājī: ... everything else but the Spirit.
Gentleman: He is man.
Śhrī Mātājī: Yes.
Gentleman: He is man, elected by men.
Śhrī Mātājī: Man elected by men. And certified by men, not by ...
Gentleman: Exactly.
Śhrī Mātājī: ... the Divine Power, he's not divine.
Gentleman: Exactly.
Śhrī Mātājī: Right.
[unclear].
And manmade things cannot be raised.
I met him in Krakow [snapping the fingers:] suddenly [in 1975]. And the I met him and ah ... after all that time is was different. And the I raised his Kuṇḍalinī, It went up.
Even now sometimes it comes up but he doesn't know Me. He doesn't know anything about it.
How to approach him? People wrote to him [laughing:] letters, it doesn't go to him. He is cut off from people, cut off from reality, cut off from everything.
Is that God, is that Christ?"
So they took Me to Krakow, where this fellow was the Cardinal [Karol Józef Wojtyła, Archbishop of Krakow]. And they held some sort of a mass, I was sitting there. And then I shook hands with him and had tea with him and I rose his Kuṇḍalinī. It came and went back in the same shot. [Soft laughter.]
But sometimes, when he is talking sense, the Kuṇḍalinī is up there. You see, It comes up and goes down, still he's not established himself. The same fellow who became the Pope [John Paul II on 1978-1016]."